Come on, Carebear, Churchmouse! And Christ referred to this visible organization as a city set on a mountain, that cannot be hidden (Matt. Hehe, found out something amusing. Also, even the more knowledgeable anti-Catholics will recognize that there is no lack of historical, philosophical, or even Biblical support for Catholicism. Appeals to emotion dont suit you well. On the one hand you are right that theological and ecclesiological issues are very important, and it would be wrong for an apologist to always pick out personal or rhetorical flaws in their opponent to avoid debate on the real issues. Also: Anonymous who I gather is Eric, So my point is simply this: If White is such an idiot then be prepared to throw about 8 well known Catholic apologists as even bigger idiots than White. Outside of the basic understanding that these letters represent the state of these local churches in the first century, others have viewed them as representing ages of the church down Last evening I spent a few hours talking with a former Christian, now a skeptic. Andrew Rappaport had me join him for the discussion, which I thought was going to be more on the history of the NT, manuscripts, etc., but turned out to be a more general theres A new book has dropped by a convert to Roman Catholicism, R.R. : CareBear, God uses the foolish to confound the wise. just further proves my point. My answer is above and didnt evade anything. pits of darkness! None of the folks who demanded a response will answer your statements. It is a manner of common decency and respect for the ones fellow man (I would say fellow Christian, but I know White has his own theory on that). In I have yet to see him list a point-by-point case from him on James Whites innocence based on the actual White v. Beckwith debate. And likewise, if we reflect Christ, we should give him the love that Christ would, yet the correction that comes with Church discipline. And just what is right and wrong? He didnt. Of course, such isnt true of God, so this really isnt that important an issue. Dont make the mistake of assuming I hold the same low standard as you. I dont get what the big deal is with the pictures. I think it is important to distinguish between Dr. Whites blog entries and his ministry. Jesus or Paul? As with any other tattoo design or symbol, if the alpha and omega tattoo reflects your personal energy and disposition, then it is time for you to make use of at least one of these designs. I beg those who are on the other side of the fence to remember that if we do not respond with love to those we disagree with, we are guilty of a sin very little different from Dr. Whites. Why is anyone responding to CareBear? Q: Not the gnostic thing again, please. What you did was vile, unacceptable, and childish. Since James White isnt an Islamist, Godwins Law doesnt apply. Luke and his wife of over seventeen years, Cheryl, have two daughters Evangeline Grace and Eliana Faith. Everybody knows that thinking people express themselves with cat macros. Actually, could you provide the title of the book??? We did another Road Trip DL today from Lafayette, Louisiana where I will be speaking for the weekend. Some good people have wasted a lot of time on him. Pray that one day they accidently drop the filter. Our Priest today gave a sermon where he was talking about the Protestants and how only through the Catholic church can one be saved, by no other means, and how the Protestants each stand up there each sunday and one man who was in many instances either elected or installed as a pastor by a community interprets for all what God thinks and what scripture says which is heresy. Thank you, Constantine. I have to admit that I was reminded by the saying that if you have to explain the humor, it wasnt funny. My understanding is that God forgives us always, but a lack of repentance on our part would keep us separated from Him. redefine repentance to mean a Whites actions dont excuse Jimmys lack of charity, but on a scale of severity Id say that Whites post was much more egregious. You answered how you determine what is scripture and what is not? WHY DONT YOU ALLOW COMMENTS ON YOUR BLOG LIKE JIMMY? Many in the early church actually accepted the Epistle of Clement as Scripture it was read in Corinth for over a hundred years as Sacred Scripture after Clement died. Rather than deal with this, some play every which way but loose, even to the point of insinuating I did it. Ill fix your quote for you. Gee, that was easy. ^_^. Hope that counts for something. As for your second, some other day perhaps you can tell me what you think should means. Do any of you really know anything about humor or about theology and humor or about humor reception? I wont be shoved aside by such a tactic. Dr. White does not look at debates as something won or lost. Take offense to being equated with a murderous mob and refuse to treat it as a logical argument, its a convenient excuse? White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a presuppositional apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. Really? Now you want to say hes judging based on that assumption? The material is evil and corrupting and the spiritual is pure and corruptible. Offensiveness per se doesnt preclude response. Bring whatever has bitten you and your family to the Lord and He will provide answers to your questions about authority. God did use the church, the gathered body (not later ecclesiastical developments regarding unbiblical structures and positions), as a means to establish widespread knowledge of the canon (mediated) so that Scripture will function as He has decreed it to function.. He is the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. His revelation? He has completed a BA in English, a NCTJ in Journalism and a BTEC level 4 in Art & Tattoo Design. What mindset? Could Mary/Foxfire actually be right all along??? I mean seriously, I bet you guys have Jimmy Akin/James White action figures and White is wearing a Darth Vader helmet. Given the comments here, the generalization measures up. That is total heresy! Now, Mary, logic is uncharitable! So you should be thankful for the checks-and-balances provided by those of us outside your walls. 2. I believe that makes you my sibling. Spent over an hour today digging deep into church history in light of the vital importance of sola scriptura. Of course the reverse can also be true: Holy Christians, holy Catholics are the only unanswerable argument for Christianity and the Catholic Church. The images were speaking toward an analogous attitude; namely, a fomented zealotry fueled by uninformed passion (which his subsequent post substantiated). Huh. Also, Im in full agreement with Mr. Donald Casadonte. Catholic Wayne- I know that one shouldnt bite to trolls, but you did very well. I hate to even mention this but It does remind me of the mindset of many (thankfully not all) Muslims who, no matter what atrocity they are confronted with always see the Jews behind it to make them look bad. Wordy and vague, his take on the canon is basically, Well, its all very electrical and scientific. James Robert White is a Baptist theologian,[1] the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, an evangelical Reformed Baptist Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona and a Christian scholar. Simply Amazing. thread. But I bet you already knew that. The History of James This is a little worse than that time you told that horribly inappropriate joke at worst place and time and everyone looked at you like you were Jack the Ripper or something. I apologize for jumping the gun and mischaracterizing you. I dont ask that you agree, but I do wish that you would try to understand that we are truly trying to do Gods will. Quick, CareBear, form your RAINBOW by which you might escape from this thread and regain your composure!!! The individual has shown that he is not willing to make a good faith effort to abide by the terms of Internet discussions, and there is no point in discussing anything with himeither ever or at least until he seriously and sincerely acknowledges just how far over the line he was. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 10, 2007 2:01:32 PM. Otherwise, we should have known nothing at all about it Russian Orthodox? You, along with others on both sides of the Tiber, have steered the discussion to other theological areas. I beg anyone who is defending Dr. White to consider this and to realize that this is not about theology, it is simply about love. His methods of distortion are to Catholicism what Richard Dawkins is to Christianity in general he reads, but not too deep. Its not as if His (infallible) knowledge can simply *pop* into existence. 1. Ive listened to James White. The Reformers werent reforming against Trent. The spirit, however, is one of obedience to Christ and of fraternal love. Ill choose to not read Dr. Whites book at this time. I was a baptist (Reformed) (there are some YouTube videos of White debating the issue if you'd like to We had considered installing blog software that would support comments, but I do not have the time to monitor such a feature to begin with, and unlike Catholic Answers, which has a multi-million dollar budget and a staff at least six or more times larger than our own, the only other staff person does not have time to mess with it either. Mr. White, April 2004. I dont know what group you refer to but Catholics and other Christians have been known to behave badly in ways that affect others. Well, of course they do. Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED Christ said: As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remain on the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in me. You contradict yourself within this sentence. Tattoo T-Shirts my alpha omega tattoo and no i was Casa Reality Rental Properties Fort Hood Tx, Alpha Omega Tattoos, alpha omega tattoos How to Draw Alpha and Omega enlarge Sigma Alpha Epsilon. You have reduced yourself to the status of a troll. Way towhat did yall do anyway? Admin Street2: God Bless, Do Catholics get better seats in heaven than the Protestants? I wasnt responding to Matthew originally, his request happened to coincide with my refutation of Esau via quotation of Whites own book about sola Scriptura. The Book of the Wars of the Lord Stubble, The simple fact is: Jimmy is willing to be cross-examined in public on his own blog without even being able to effectively monitor the results. What name-calling did Jimmy Akin resort to? GOD knows who did it, but one thing can be certain, NO PROTESTANT would go through such extremes let alone steer folks to Catholic Answers. salvation. You insist that it neccessitates the rejection of the FACT that God used the councils to establish the canon of the Church. Observations on the rest of this debacle: GK Chesterton, The Everlasting Man. 2. There is nothing wrong with Whites assertion that God would know what he wrote (or inspired to be written), and that if he chose to he could name them all. Dont poisen the well. I cant believe I trawled this com box on a sunny Saturday afternoon, but it wasnt all dank and darkness. Disciples are followers. I thought Roman Catholicism had better answers to offer than that. If anything, you are actually guilty of the fallacy of neglected evidence as you have failed to consider (to the extent of even overlooking) evidence that is likely to be relevant to the argument here such as elements in the debate itself between White v. Beckwith. Not only that, but attributing negative intention to Catholics for what they themselves contributed to. Fixed Dates 2. But that was my fault because I was not clear in my intentions. Lying about Catholics cant be bad because its a joke? You. Did you HONESTLY believe that folks here thought that whoever owns that .org addy didnt know the address he was sending the traffic toward? Went almost two hours today but its an important program. Also, the pictures appear to liken those Muslims rallying against Rushdie with blind zeal, who had probably never read anything by him, with those here and other places who rally against White with that same blind zeal, yet have never read a paragraph by him. Lets put up a few more posts to get the porn sites off the Recent Comments column. It makes you look much less than you are, and whats more, it risks bringing the perception of the message of the Church down to the drivel of Calvin then and now. But. Thank you so much for your answer! I think he just lost a lot of people. It is as if yall are unaware of the passage where Paul says love does not take account of wrong done to it. That is what anti-catholic is, you know. HAHA!!!! . The Chronicles of King Ahasuerus[21] Can you get off this tangent and actually make a point? Also, its interesting how in your most recent comment, you have excluded the White disciple; therefore, would it be unreasonable for me to concluded now that you are pointing the finger at Catholics, since they would be the one, based on what youve been implying here and on the other thread, with the malicious intents? That is a matter of historical fact. He seems to leave it up to the individual, and seems to assume that each individual will personally experience divine revelation regarding the proper Canon. You may opt for a design like this, where the tattoo starts with the rho symbol and ends with a beautifully detailed anchor, with the chi in between. Its not appealing at all. Is our Catholic faith true only when we are not offended? If you want to know how much merit this accusation has, picture someone saying this after inhaling helium. Webcast One I read compared Catholicism to a tall, beautiful, magnificent cathedral whose pillars of doctrine rise and conjoin in the heights into perfectly executed arches. Double standards? But I do understand Dr. Whites sense of frustration. Does Jimmys come with the white cowboy hat? Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. . Theo. Glorious Lord. Just who are you accusing here???? We just happened to stumble into each other providentially. I will claim that he has done the deadliest thing for a humorist: failed to make his audience laugh. *grin*. Satanic Easy-To-Read Version bill912, Anymore ad hominem onel iners or are you actually going to deal with the picture issue and refute me? Admin Name:to attn. 2. Thank you for finally providing something with which to work. I seem to recall even Aristotle thinking circles in logic might be OK if they were small enough. We deserve the ridicule of White like good children deserve cake. No. Jill, The Revelation of Zechariah Ignored the facts yourself by not taking into consideration the things James White has done What does is when it isnt intended as serious even by its author Jeff has been married to his bride, Candi, for over 20 years. Beckwiths conversion is probably the most upsetting thing that happened to White since his sister became Catholic. Grab your Bible and your note pad and come along! Emmanuel, The Internet is anarchy cubed. Thats all that matters. My best understanding of our teaching is that we are to judge not lest we be judged and to forgive that we too might be forgiven. Both the symbols are beautifully interlinked, but can still be differentiated quite easily. Amazing-ly repugnant and dispicable, that is! Perhaps we should go above and beyond on showing him the love Christ demands Its doubtful that hell ever recover from it. It also doesnt say we have to forgive one who does not repent. Bill said: Um. If there were genuine principles involved here then Jimmy would sanction a distancing from James White and Mark Shea but we know that Jimmys boss is bankrolling publication of some upcoming books from the very same Mark Shea. Its simply the way it is. Will you still EVADE the question??? I mean, after reading him, i see no real refutation or engaging with his points. call me Fox like Esau has. lied. By their fruits you will know them. 2 Corinthians 11:3 Thats something Ive noticed about the people defending White. 18:17) He who hears you hears me; and he who rejects you rejects me; and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me (Luke 10:16). The expectation that people drop whatever theyre doing and answer your/Whites laundry list of 8 questions. Your attempt to call into question their value as an educational institution is pathetic and sad. My identity does not derive from protesting against someone elses errors. Could It Get Any Loonier? Further, most laws we know of in advocacy and argumentation is made-up; yet, that doesnt mean they do not apply. Z est X. Or Elmar. We should storm heaven with prayers for his conversion. Was the Quran Reliably Transmitted from the Prophet Muhammad? 3. If however you have been reading this blog as long as I have you will know that neither Jimmy nor many of the regular combox contributors are ones to shy away from real meaningful debate on these meaningful subjects. I suppose its completely lost on most of you here that your reactions to Dr Whites openly humorous post actually prove his point. The context evoked by the pictures is also, not really germane. Those 8 questions belong are enough for several threads. Athanasius? If they are your questions, then take ownership of your questions. Just how reasonable, how even logical can this argument be when, in fact: I am sure it is. No I dont and I never did so Id appreciate it if youll write a recantation to that accusation. Jimmy was born in Texas, grew up nominally Protestant, but at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Seriously, its like someone googled logical fallacies and just started sprinkling them into their accusations. If White really thought he had done something wrong, he would apologize, because Ive seen him do it with the Caner Debate Debacle. Were back to the appropriateness of the jihadi analogy. The pictures That was the topic of discussion that Jimmy asked us to consider, not apologetics unless you know more about the relationship of theology to humor than I do and can discuss that restricted use of theology intelligently. I understand that most likely this is complete tripe but one still wonders. Maybe not James White, who believes he can judge Jimmys outrage to be feigned. (I wouldnt presume to know whether White really thinks that or merely feigns to; I cant read minds and dont know James White.) Office Hours We deserve the constant belittling by the Secularists, Protestants, and Muslims. Mt 16:18: You only give him credibility when you do. St. Paul said [21][22][23][24], White has written multiple books critical of Roman Catholic theology, including the books; The Roman Catholic Controversy, Mary: Another Redeemer? Acts 13:38&39 Roman Catholics differ on as many issues as Protestant Evangelicals do. And He promised his disciples: Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven (Matt. Greek Latin Roots - by james.r.hendricks.390 - Memrise Symbol For Alpha Alpha And Omega Symbols Alpha Et Omega Patricia Briggs Samoan Tattoo I Tattoo Hebrew Tattoo Ankle Tattoo Alpha Omega Tattoo More information. Did you even read my comment: I just checked Jimmys Store he doesnt seem to carry any action figures of himself or James White? If indeed Grace poured out via the Holy Spirit, completely independent from Church Tradition and Ecclesiastical Action, was the arbiter involved in the discernment of Gods infallible Canon, wouldnt the documentation and history surrounding the council bear witness to this? The if he repents phrase in Luke 17 is not indicating that one should wait to forgive. Alpha and Omega Ministries all of which you clearly demonstrated by your assumptions that Catholic Answer was behind that website. I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpents cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. No one else can know infallibly know this canon outside of the authors attempt to comunicate it to othersEven those closest to the author cannot know with utter certainty whether the author has used anyone else in the writing process or borrowed from another sourceTherefore, the originator of a book has an infallible knowledge of the works, while anyone else has a mediated knowledge, dependent upon the honest and the integrity of the author and the authors desire to make the canon known to others. If the author continues writing, the canon changes with the completion of each project. Here are some Whites assertions destroy his own position. CareBear, The rest of you may go on with the theological discussions and the name-calling, but the matter on the table for discussion the success or failure of the humor in Dr. Maybe you think calling Mr. White names and running discussions according to a made up law is engaging in appropriate discussion methods. It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. Otherwise, how is one to judge between one list of books and another? You do not compare your interlocutors to Islamists or portray those who urge charity on your part as if they were advocates of beheading those who disagree with them. Try it just once and youll see. CareBear, Other formats: Audible Audiobook, Paperback, Audio CD. Think of it as a healthy kind of check-and-balance system. Your original claim was that the Apostles were empowered. Andit worked. Again, you imagine. When did you authoritatively establish what His revelation is? Jimmy, when you take stupid things seriously, you yourself look stupid. A Biblical Basis for the Immaculate Conception. Jeff was featured on a series for the History Channel, The Stoned Ages which reviewed the Christian approach and philosophy concerning drug and alcohol addiction. I also discussed Dr. Kevin Youngs amazing assertion that I declined the debate challenge I offered Got started a little late so we didnt go a full hour but covered some Tweet theology, including responding to Leighton Flowers and looking at some Thomas stuff. Both alpha and omega symbols have different meanings and when put together, these two Greek letters open the door to a wide range of interpretations and symbolism. New Testament Reliability -Can you trust the Bible? The Sovereign Grace of God: A Biblical Study of the Doctrines of Calvinism. So what? I say this with as much humility as I can. That the pictures are offensive is completely immaterial to those few who come to his defense. It seems a bit strange to hear (Especially from a Calvinist) that the Canon of Scripture was borne into existence and unbeknownst to God before the writing of scripture proper. He has failed to do this or did he really think that Catholics would find his pictures funny? If you were Catholic, Id tell you to go to confession. Talk about the pictures. But its rather annoying when com-boxers ask Why has no one addressed my argument? Now that you have the answers to questions like, What does alpha mean? and What does omega mean?, and also have found some exciting alpha omega tattoo designs, you can certainly understand that a lot can be done with these tattoos. God inspires, and the canon expresses the limitation of that action. To those who think that the actions here are proving Whites point with the images, you need to look at recent events. etc. The Prophecy of Ahijah[9] If you want discussion on the real issues, cut the drama. God=Author They. The conversion of the greatest early Church Father, St. Augustine of Hippo. And He will do it because He loves us. And you know what? Finally I see now the ruse!!! Please note Im only an average layperson (and I never really post online), so what I say might be in error. in Judaism the same type of traditions exist and they are known as Talmud (Oral Torah). I have one thing to say about Dr. White: Golden Gate Theological Seminary. Are you that irrational? Amazing so since theyre dead, they dont know anything??? You cant have it both ways, both definitive and conditional. Confessing to a Priest has Biblical basis; confessing to God personally does not. I realize now (and I am sure I am not the first) that mysticism is truly offensive (in military meaning of the word). b. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. The only thing that has gone on here is 6 or 7 people posted anwhere from 50 to 60 posts each, whipping each other into a mob frenzy, which is what Akin appears to have wanted as he has remained silent through it all, even silent to allegations of him totally jumping the gun. righteous thing that I can do!. by his stripes I am healed. (Same people To this end, and if the above premise is true, then the question How do we know this to be Authoritatively True? must be answered: Therefore, there will be that many fewer OSAS Protestants and the likelihood that they will perish in Hell for not accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior (as per the normative forms of the OSAS). Mike Petrik- Dude, chill. If we disagree with someone, and wish to show they are wrong in their teaching, we may certainly express those feelings with earnest passion and a sharp-edged logic. Aside by such a tactic almost two hours today but its rather annoying when com-boxers ask why has one. 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